Some good stuff on the rehabilitation of the concept of sin. If one is steeped in that tradition it’s a path forward. For me, however perhaps because of the past experiences within that tradition, it only reinforces my choice towards an eastern philosophical spiritual perspective.
I hear you... It might be interesting to contemplate the parallels in these lines from the Yoga Sūtra and accompanying commentary (in relation to yama and niyama - translation from Roots of Yoga by Mallinson and Singleton):
“Of these rules and observances [it is said]:
(2.33) When oppressed by wrong thoughts, [there should be] cultivation of [their] opposite.
When in the Brahman practising thus there arise wrong thoughts of violence and the like, such as ‘I shall kill a wrongdoer’, ‘I shall lie’, ‘I shall appropriate his wealth’, ‘I shall have sex with his wife’, ‘I shall become master of his property’, [then,] oppressed by the blazing fever of such wrong thoughts, which lead [him] down a false path, he should cultivate their opposites. He should think thus: ‘While being baked in the terrible burning coals of cyclic existence, I have taken refuge in the way of yoga (yogadharma) by offering protection to all living beings.’ One should cultivate the notion that by taking up wrong thoughts again after renouncing them, one is acting like a dog. By taking up again something [which one has] renounced, one is like a dog which laps up [its own] vomit. [Reasoning] like this should be applied to the other sūtras. […] When his wrong thoughts become incapable of reproduction, because of cultivation of the opposites, the mastery that is created as a result is indicative of the yogi’s success.”
Yes, I agree there are similar “rules and observances”. Perhaps it’s my own bias, but I see one as using a carrot and the other as using a stick?
For me, my interpretation of eastern thought, is that it is necessary to also not be hypocritical. And get your own house in order for the purpose and benefit of one’s self and others.
Swami Satchidananda (Woodstock Guru) said in one of his books that has always resonated with me. That you can’t make meditation happen, you can only create an environment where it is more likely to occur. It seems to me that eastern thought comes from that perspective. While traditional Christianity as a religion (not necessarily what Jesus taught?) comes from a fear perspective (sin, hell & judgment).
PS i previously finished the Upanishads Course. Thanks for allowing us to listen & engage again in the newest release. Terrific Course!
Elizabeth's descriptions made me wonder if both traditions see the ethics kind of similarly –though that wasn't how I heard them in childhood – hence not identifying as Christian...
And there's lots of fine talk that isn't always walked by yogic gurus (including Satchidananda). So although I agree that there's a focus on experiential insight in yoga, as opposed to purging oneself of sin, accumulations of karma and the trap of saṃsāra can also sound sticky... 🥕
The human experiment is still an experiment. Any time people become involved there is room for disappointment. Separating the wisdom from the human failings is a challenge. Thats why the experiential is an important element in addition to reflection and study. lol that sounds a lot like the guidance from the past?
I love that this book is NOT about 7 quick hacks to the Soul but instead Elizabeth shares her spiritual journey as a human being influenced and informed by her religious traditions and the whisperings of her inner soul. When you asked her why she returned to the Christian church, her answer ? “My soul kept praying and I couldn’t stop it” My Soul says thank you for resisting the temptation to “stop it” and instead we are looking forward to more Soul tending and the release of this book, Fully Alive❤️🙏
Some good stuff on the rehabilitation of the concept of sin. If one is steeped in that tradition it’s a path forward. For me, however perhaps because of the past experiences within that tradition, it only reinforces my choice towards an eastern philosophical spiritual perspective.
I hear you... It might be interesting to contemplate the parallels in these lines from the Yoga Sūtra and accompanying commentary (in relation to yama and niyama - translation from Roots of Yoga by Mallinson and Singleton):
“Of these rules and observances [it is said]:
(2.33) When oppressed by wrong thoughts, [there should be] cultivation of [their] opposite.
When in the Brahman practising thus there arise wrong thoughts of violence and the like, such as ‘I shall kill a wrongdoer’, ‘I shall lie’, ‘I shall appropriate his wealth’, ‘I shall have sex with his wife’, ‘I shall become master of his property’, [then,] oppressed by the blazing fever of such wrong thoughts, which lead [him] down a false path, he should cultivate their opposites. He should think thus: ‘While being baked in the terrible burning coals of cyclic existence, I have taken refuge in the way of yoga (yogadharma) by offering protection to all living beings.’ One should cultivate the notion that by taking up wrong thoughts again after renouncing them, one is acting like a dog. By taking up again something [which one has] renounced, one is like a dog which laps up [its own] vomit. [Reasoning] like this should be applied to the other sūtras. […] When his wrong thoughts become incapable of reproduction, because of cultivation of the opposites, the mastery that is created as a result is indicative of the yogi’s success.”
Yes, I agree there are similar “rules and observances”. Perhaps it’s my own bias, but I see one as using a carrot and the other as using a stick?
For me, my interpretation of eastern thought, is that it is necessary to also not be hypocritical. And get your own house in order for the purpose and benefit of one’s self and others.
Swami Satchidananda (Woodstock Guru) said in one of his books that has always resonated with me. That you can’t make meditation happen, you can only create an environment where it is more likely to occur. It seems to me that eastern thought comes from that perspective. While traditional Christianity as a religion (not necessarily what Jesus taught?) comes from a fear perspective (sin, hell & judgment).
PS i previously finished the Upanishads Course. Thanks for allowing us to listen & engage again in the newest release. Terrific Course!
You're welcome – I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Elizabeth's descriptions made me wonder if both traditions see the ethics kind of similarly –though that wasn't how I heard them in childhood – hence not identifying as Christian...
And there's lots of fine talk that isn't always walked by yogic gurus (including Satchidananda). So although I agree that there's a focus on experiential insight in yoga, as opposed to purging oneself of sin, accumulations of karma and the trap of saṃsāra can also sound sticky... 🥕
You are so correct!
The human experiment is still an experiment. Any time people become involved there is room for disappointment. Separating the wisdom from the human failings is a challenge. Thats why the experiential is an important element in addition to reflection and study. lol that sounds a lot like the guidance from the past?
Thanks Daniel for helping with that process.
I love that this book is NOT about 7 quick hacks to the Soul but instead Elizabeth shares her spiritual journey as a human being influenced and informed by her religious traditions and the whisperings of her inner soul. When you asked her why she returned to the Christian church, her answer ? “My soul kept praying and I couldn’t stop it” My Soul says thank you for resisting the temptation to “stop it” and instead we are looking forward to more Soul tending and the release of this book, Fully Alive❤️🙏
It’s a very human book - I enjoyed it a lot and hope you do too! 🙌😍